Apple's PDA

[nate]

What? Where? Apple has a PDA out?

Ok, no not really (although it did, once).

But anyway, I was looking around on the net thinking about getting a PDA or a Pocket PC; you can either go with Palm or Windows OS PDAs -- i don't think the windows ones are compatible anyway.

But, then I got thinking -- wouldn't it be great if Apple came out with a PDA.

They did once, but it was out before its time (the Newton).

But -- think of this: iPods are small and they carry gigabytes of information, not just 256 Mb as some of the top PDAs have.

Wouldn't it be cool if Apple combined PDA with iPod. You can have music, games, organization tools -- just hook your computer up (or use blue tooth) and download things onto your iPDA

Or, maybe wireless internet, so you can use it in a net work (some PDA's do that).

Think of how much better an Apple PDA would be. Even make it windows compatible, let windows users get a taste of the sexy mac designs, the ease and style that makes you want it.

a 4Gig, 40gig, 60gig, or 80Gig iPDA would be nice. It would be a true pocket computer!

And it would have integration with iLife, too.

I wonder if Apple has thought of actually bringing something like this out (again)?

I heard of something to do with palm, but then they decided not to -- or not?

--nate

[superbovine]

I don't think apple is going to make a PDA, however i think motorola will make a PDA/cell that works well with apples.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/...26213823.shtml

[mkrishnan]

Originally Posted by superbovine

I don't think apple is going to make a PDA, however i think motorola will make a PDA/cell that works well with apples.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/...26213823.shtml

*Tries to change the topic away from Apple PDA quickly before it starts again *

So, that's actually an interesting idea...you figure, Nokia and Sony Ericsson are all-out Symbian. If iTunes on the Moto is the beginning, what if Apple released portable iCal and portable AdBk? Or else helped Moto to get it right?

Now then Motorola needs to get in gear and make all this work with Bluetooth. I am *not* crazy about going back to syncing with a cable.

[MikeLaRiviere]

The iPod definitely has PDA/PIM functions: the calendar, address book, and notes applications. Granted, it's not a full-fledged PDA, but it has what most people need.

Here's my problem with PDAs though. I think they're quite cool; I bought an Apple Newton MessagePad something like eight years ago, but didn't have much use for it. The "cool" factor didn't outweight the "don't need it factor." Plus, handwriting recognition wasn't great. A couple years ago, I thought I'd give it another go with a Dell Axim PocketPC. Now, this PDA was much better and much cooler than the Newton; I had WiFi hooked up, I could view Word docs on it... it had a lot of functions. But still, I had no use for it. So I'm wondering, what do people really use their PDAs for? And when I say PDA, I'm referring exclusively to the PocketPC or PalmOS operating systems. You see, I believe that such PDA/PIMs as the Blackberry, cellular phones, iPod, and SideKick could be very functional. I know Bank of America issues Blackberries to all of its vice presidents and higher, and these PIMs seem very useful for sending and receiving email. Anything that has cellular capability and a keyboard seems most useful to me; for instance, I use the t610's bluetooth and GPRS to give my PBook internet on the train to and from work. I can't imagine using a PocketPC or Palm to do the things I do on the computer, though.

Any thoughts?

Mike LaRiviere

[mkrishnan]

Originally Posted by MikeLaRiviere

The iPod definitely has PDA/PIM functions: the calendar, address book, and notes applications. Granted, it's not a full-fledged PDA, but it has what most people need....

I don't use the iPod PDA features at all, but I use the ones on my phone intensively. I agree completely with you about PDAs...I bought a Palm III a long time ago, stopped using it, never really wanted to replace it. I don't want a PDA now. I want a cellular device with good PDA functionality....

Actually, I'm really interested in the next gen Sidekick thingie if it has BT. Always on IM would be super fun. But besides all the other reasons for needing BT, I've become addicted to the cell modem functionality with T-Mobile's cheap data svcs.

[question fear]

<twitch> <twitch>

THERE WILL NOT BE ANOTHER APPLE PDA!!!! THE PDA MARKET IS SHRINKING, IT IS A BAD BAD BAD INVESTMENT FOR APPLE!

whew. I feel better now.
Please, in the future, search for the myriad of threads on this before you post with another "wouldnt this be great if an apple pda"....

[Vector]

It had been so long since someone posted an apple pda thread, that i thought that maybe, just maybe, people had come to their senses and realized that it isn't going to happen. Jobs killed the newton, and has stated on any occassion that he has been asked that apple is not in the pda business nor does it plan to be.

[Hoven]

Originally Posted by question fear

<twitch> <twitch>

THERE WILL NOT BE ANOTHER APPLE PDA!!!! THE PDA MARKET IS SHRINKING, IT IS A BAD BAD BAD INVESTMENT FOR APPLE!

whew. I feel better now....

Well, it I think it is true that the PDA market is changing. This is why Sony announced the end of the Clie line. And they were at the top of the game. I don't see that Apple should get into this market when Sony is getting out.

The whole "take my stuff with me" market is shifting to something else, mostly around the wireless/cellphone market because those folks are building in all sorts of functionality around the fact that all that PDA data (and picture data, etc) is just data that you can not only take with you, but can be sent and received as well. This is obviously way outside the iPod niche.

[mac_gal]

This is just my opinion, but ...

I think the iPod will eventually turn into what most of us consider a "PDA." It already has a calendar, etc., and I have a feeling we'll see more.

I think that there someday might be a little keyboard attachment for the iPod. I don't think Apple will EVER call it a PDA though. It will always be a music player, and "hey look at that you can store contacts and a calendar and other things in it too."

[Hoven]

Originally Posted by mkrishnan

I don't use the iPod PDA features at all, but I use the ones on my phone intensively. I agree completely with you about PDAs...I bought a Palm III a long time ago, stopped using it, never really wanted to replace it. I don't want a PDA now. I want a cellular device with good PDA functionality...

Gee, that's funny. I want a good PDA device with cellular functionality.

I have a Sony Clie (and a Palm III before that and a Palm Pro before that). I tell folks that "my whole life is in there". If it doesn't get entered into the PDA, it doesn't count. Appointments, documents, contact info, games, eBooks, databases, photos... everything. I've really come to rely on it as I would a laptop, only it's really, really small.

For example, if I find myself looking up a phone number, it goes in to the PDA. Now, over years of doing this, I can pretty much look up anyone I want that I've ever come into contact with or called. I can read a story while waiting for my wife outside the women's fitting room in the store, I can work on a budget from work, brag by showing photos of my family... whatever.

What I can't do is surf the web or use that contact info to make a call with the PDA. I have to look up the number in the PDA and then enter into the phone. Hence, all I'm looking for is a really cool PDA with a cellphone functionalities so I only have to carry one device.

Well... OK, and a good digital camera too... and while I'm at it, a device that I can easily sync to my Mac via cell-call, bluetooth, or sync cable. (It would be way cool, using this dream device too, to be able to fetch info from of my Mac or send info to my Mac while I'm away from the desk ).

[question fear]

Originally Posted by Hoven

Gee, that's funny. I want a good PDA device with cellular functionality.

What I can't do is surf the web or use that contact info to make a call with the PDA. I have to look up the number in the PDA and then enter into the phone. Hence, all I'm looking for is a really cool PDA with a cellphone functionalities so I only have to carry one device.

Well... OK, and a good digital camera too... and while I'm at it, a device that I can easily sync to my Mac via cell-call, bluetooth, or sync cable. (It would be way cool, using this dream device too, to be able to fetch info from of my Mac or send info to my Mac while I'm away from the desk ).

just get a tungsten t3 or any other bluetooth enabled palm device, and a sony ericson or some other bt phone, and a bt headset. with the tungsten t, you can find a contact, and have it tell the phone to call that contact (if the phone's got a headset paired too, you dont even need to get the phone out of your pocket).

that would probably be the best setup for you.

Let me clarify somewhat on my insistance that pdas are a shrinking market.
I had a palm m100, a casio BE300 (kind of a truncated WinCE device, but there was a whole community of hackers who created a new OS for it. it was fun to play with for a while), a sharp wizard, and a palm zire 71. Some combination of the 4 of them got me through college, taking notes, keeping syllabi organized, etc. I followed the PDA market religiously, looking for what new features were coming out, saving for the next great device, etc. If you look at the features being brough out now, its nothing new or great. VGA screens are nice, but they're essentially the same devices released two years ago. We're all waiting for wifi, and dual expansion slots, and bluetooth, but you know what? None of that is going to save the pda market. The dual desire for more more more, combined with smaller, smaller, smaller, has created the need for convergence devices and small laptops. A 4inch VGA screen is still 4 inches. It's still more of a pain than a light business notebook, and it only costs 300-400 dollars less. Which in the business world isn't much, when you have to add on extra batteries, posisbly a wifi or bluetooth card, a keyboard, case, extra word software, and a computer to back it all up to. Suddenly you're within a few hundred of a regular notebook, and it can do all that and more. Why use the PDA? Or go in the other direction. You need to make and receive calls, enter quick calendar notes, and maybe keep a few memos on your pda. That's where the cell phone pda comes in. It holds everyhting in one place, and its less for someone to juggle on a business trip.
The regular PDA has a shrinking space in this world. It won't die out anytime soon, but it also isnt the future of any company who makes them (even palm has thrown their all behind the the treo line). That is why apple will not make a pda.
-carly
ps sorry for the long post, but I wanted this to be really clear and thorough.

[Jopling]

... or maybe it would just be a pile of crap.

Apple has said time and time again that right now PDAs just aren't practical enough right now. If they were to make a PDA the demand would be far too low, and they would most likely lose money on the whole product.

[Hoven]

Originally Posted by question fear

just get a tungsten t3 or any other bluetooth enabled palm device, and a sony ericson or some other bt phone, and a bt headset. with the tungsten t, you can find a contact, and have it tell the phone to call that contact (if the phone's got a headset paired too, you dont even need to get the phone out of your pocket).

that would probably be the best setup for you.

Not a bad idea. I'd have to look for a BT phone that works with Verizon Wireless. Of course, then I'm still carrying two devices, but it's a bit closer to what I'd like.

Originally Posted by question fear

Let me clarify somewhat on my insistance that pdas are a shrinking market.
... Why use the PDA? Or go in the other direction. You need to make and receive calls, enter quick calendar notes, and maybe keep a few memos on your pda. That's where the cell phone pda comes in. It holds everyhting in one place, and its less for someone to juggle on a business trip....

I agree that for someone like me, a smaller high powered laptop makes more sense, but I can't clip one of those to my belt or slip it in my pocket.

To me, it looks like all these devices will continue to merge. It won't be cellphone vs PDA vs laptop vs whatever. It'll be a personal data/comm device that's small, portable and has whatever features you want to "plug" into it.

Later!

[rock6079]

actually a few years ago there was huge rumors about that, and there were some quicktime clips too. but it turned out to b made up by someone. nonetheless it was pretty cool. search the forums i think it would ahve been on here or maybe spymac, i think it was called iWalk maybe .. i forget

[question fear]

Originally Posted by rock6079

actually a few years ago there was huge rumors about that, and there were some quicktime clips too. but it turned out to b made up by someone. nonetheless it was pretty cool. search the forums i think it would ahve been on here or maybe spymac, i think it was called iWalk maybe .. i forget

that, from what i know, was the most elaborate rumor/hoax. there have been rumors throughout the years, and just recently brighthand.com (a pda site) was citing rumors as well.
none of them have panned out, and steve jobs has been extremely adamant about there not being any apple pdas forthcoming...
but the rumor mill abhors a vacuum, and so there will forever be attempts to push an apple PDA.

edit: right now, there is an ad for endangered species advocacy site at the bottom...apparently pdas are an endangered species!!!

[mkrishnan]

Originally Posted by Hoven

Gee, that's funny. I want a good PDA device with cellular functionality.

Did you see that new HP iPaq that has BT, 802.11, IRDA, GSM and GPRS? Too bad its a windows device....

[King Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jopling

Apple has said time and time again that right now PDAs just aren't practical enough right now. If they were to make a PDA the demand would be far too low, and they would most likely lose money on the whole product.

It's not practical for them to get into the market "right now."

It might be obvious to some, but it isn't to others: The new PDA is the cell phone. Instead of it being a talking system from person to person, it has become a talking system from machine to machine, and from machine to self, and from machine to person. The newest cell phones have far more features than cell phones did one year ago, two years ago, three years ago, etc., and those features evolved from text messages, to images, to audio playback, and then to portable video, which is the current "big thing." After that, the new big thing (I predict starting in early 2005) will be vast storage inside of the cell phone (using 1 inch or less diameter spinning Hard Drives) so that one can keep a lot of text messages, images, and especially audible and viewable media on the cell phone and portable, rather than having to manage it with a computer. The cell phone has essentially become the portable [desk] accessory for your portable needs and will continue to evolve into what will become the new definition of the PDA.

So if Apple keeps saying that a PDA [made by Apple] isn't practical enough, even as the needs for certain PDA features changes, then as long as cell phones keep changing to act more and more like traditional PDAs, it will never be practical for Apple to make a PDA or cell phone.

[annk]

Originally Posted by MikeLaRiviere

So I'm wondering, what do people really use their PDAs for? And when I say PDA, I'm referring exclusively to the PocketPC or PalmOS operating systems.

Any thoughts?

Mike LaRiviere

I am an (involuntary) PC-user at work and a Mac user at home. I use my iPaq Pocket PC at work and work-related seminars with a Targus Stowaway portable keyboard. It fits in my pocket (the keyboard is the size of the pocket PC when it's folded), boots up in 2 seconds, and has a fully-functioning keyboard that I can use to type notes in Word - which are dumped over to my work PC in about 30 seconds. No more typing up from messy handwritten notes, and no more dragging a laptop around to meetings. Besides, it's not always appropriate to drag out and boot up a laptop in all circumstances. I can also hook the PPC up to a projector and show my presentations from it (I've never done it, but the hardware, software and possibility is there). I've also used it to check my mail on the road, on vacation and other places I didn't want to or couldn't safely take my laptop.

I tried using the contacts and calender on my Sony Ericsson T610, but it's just too small, without any possibility to get a real overview. And I don't want to have a big, clumpy phone/PDA like the SE P900, that doesn't have the possibility of using a fold-out, fully functioning keyboard. I want my phone to be small and light, my laptop to be a beautiful piece of equipment (PB G4 17" , portable enough for me) and my PDA to be something that bridges the gaps.

So yeah - if there were an Apple-compatible PPC out there, I'd get it in a flash.

[Hoven]

Originally Posted by mkrishnan

Did you see that new HP iPaq that has BT, 802.11, IRDA, GSM and GPRS? Too bad its a windows device....

Hmmm... no, I hadn't paid any attention to PDA's since I got my Clie a few years ago, so I went to hp.com. The iPAQ h6315 (or related models) seems a rather nice PDA/Phone combo, if a bit bulky. I like that it has a little clip-on keyboard. Even has an optional camera (but not a very good one).

I've always used Palm-OS based PDA's, but it's not like I've spent a ton of money on Palm software. I could switch with the right price/features combinations. Although I doubt I could use it with my Verizon wireless service. I also would question whether it can be sync'ed to my eMAC/OS-X.

I actually prefer the Samsung i600. Nice clamshell design. Still not Palm based and no idea if it works with my Mac.

Ah, well... I can wait for the "right" device.

[Hoven]

Originally Posted by annk

I am an (involuntary) PC-user at work and a Mac user at home.

As am I. As are most folks I'll wager.
So, do you only sync your iPAQ at work on your PC or does it work on your Mac as well?

Originally Posted by annk

{...}which are dumped over to my work PC in about 30 seconds. No more typing up from messy handwritten notes, and no more dragging a laptop around to meetings. {...} I tried using the contacts and calender on my Sony Ericsson T610, but it's just too small, without any possibility to get a real overview.

Ya, my LG phone has a calendar, sort of, but navigation and text entry using it with only the number keys for typing is a pain. It's really just a phone with cheap toys added, not real, usable applications.

(Sooo.... Have we strayed waaayy too far from the Apple PDA topic yet!?? )

[Saad]

I translated an interesting article about the evolving rumors sorrounding the Newton.

MessagePad? iPDA? iWalk?